Comments on: The medusa and the snail http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/ Genealogy anywhere. Fri, 04 Jul 2008 05:19:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0 by: John http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-1788 Sun, 10 Sep 2006 19:17:00 +0000 http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-1788 Ponds? Ponds?

]]> by: Ben http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-221 Wed, 24 May 2006 21:41:44 +0000 http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-221 One last thing: my aim is simplicity, which means cutting out features. PhpGedView seems to be more interested in adding them. (It's not just PGV, of course -- virtually all the applications out there are the same way.) That alone is reason for this project. One last thing: my aim is simplicity, which means cutting out features. PhpGedView seems to be more interested in adding them. (It’s not just PGV, of course — virtually all the applications out there are the same way.) That alone is reason for this project.

]]> by: Ben http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-220 Wed, 24 May 2006 21:38:50 +0000 http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-220 Um, I disagree. Administrators need to be happy as much as users do (especially when they're the same person). Installing WordPress is extremely easy, which makes me as a blog administrator happy. As for whether the SOAP layer would help, the kinds of things I have in mind go down to the very core of the app. It wouldn't be nice of me to insist on the PGV developers uprooting everything just to suit me and my (radical) ideas. (And no, I don't think they'd necessarily brush off my suggestions.) Anyway, I don't want to wage war with PhpGedView. :) Our paths will be different, but that's okay. We can learn from each other and cooperate, and yet I don't think we need to merge. At least not at this point; we'll see where we are a year from now. Let's just leave it at that. And yes, I'll try the 4.0 beta and report on it. Um, I disagree. Administrators need to be happy as much as users do (especially when they’re the same person). Installing WordPress is extremely easy, which makes me as a blog administrator happy.

As for whether the SOAP layer would help, the kinds of things I have in mind go down to the very core of the app. It wouldn’t be nice of me to insist on the PGV developers uprooting everything just to suit me and my (radical) ideas. (And no, I don’t think they’d necessarily brush off my suggestions.)

Anyway, I don’t want to wage war with PhpGedView. :) Our paths will be different, but that’s okay. We can learn from each other and cooperate, and yet I don’t think we need to merge. At least not at this point; we’ll see where we are a year from now.

Let’s just leave it at that. And yes, I’ll try the 4.0 beta and report on it.

]]> by: test http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-219 Wed, 24 May 2006 19:50:46 +0000 http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-219 Make sure that you use the latest 4.0 beta and not the 3.3.8 version. Ease of use is very important, but much less so for a server sided install. Make sure that you use the latest 4.0 beta and not the 3.3.8 version. Ease of use is very important, but much less so for a server sided install.

]]> by: Ben http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-218 Wed, 24 May 2006 19:49:14 +0000 http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-218 Two more things: PhpGedView is bit of a pain to install (more than it should be, at any rate -- look at WordPress's simplicity for a comparison), and the initial configuration screens are daunting and completely unfriendly. But I'll install it again and give it a second chance. (Well, a second chance to see what it does and how it works, but I doubt I'll switch over to use it.) Two more things: PhpGedView is bit of a pain to install (more than it should be, at any rate — look at WordPress’s simplicity for a comparison), and the initial configuration screens are daunting and completely unfriendly. But I’ll install it again and give it a second chance. (Well, a second chance to see what it does and how it works, but I doubt I’ll switch over to use it.)

]]> by: test http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-217 Wed, 24 May 2006 19:48:37 +0000 http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-217 BTW PhpGedView supports committing all data changes into either CVS or SVN, so this should nto be an issue (it is a config option). PhpGedView has a new Research Assistant module developed by Neumont Univ. If this had a SOAP layer would that help? You might not be a PhpGedView developer, but did you ever ask on their forums about the items that interest you? or are you just assuming that any suggestion would be rejected? BTW PhpGedView supports committing all data changes into either CVS or SVN, so this should nto be an issue (it is a config option). PhpGedView has a new Research Assistant module developed by Neumont Univ. If this had a SOAP layer would that help?
You might not be a PhpGedView developer, but did you ever ask on their forums about the items that interest you? or are you just assuming that any suggestion would be rejected?

]]> by: Ben http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-216 Wed, 24 May 2006 19:39:19 +0000 http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-216 But there are things I want to do with the data layer that I can't do with PhpGedView (my way of doing evidence/sources, for example, and the research pages). And not to mention the revision control idea. Nor do I think GEDCOM is a good foundation to build on. These things <i>might</i> be possible to change, yes, but (a) it's more work than doing it from the ground up, (b) I'm not a lead developer on PhpGedView and thus don't have the clout or authority to make these sorts of changes, and (c) I don't want to work in PHP, I want to work in Ruby on Rails. I appreciate your concerns, and I hope that PhpGedView continues to get better and better. As I've said before, I'm not in this for self-aggrandizement; I'm in it to make the genealogical world a better place. Beyond gives me a blank slate on which I can try new ideas, and if any good ideas do come out of this, other developers are more than welcome to incorporate them into their projects. In short, I'm not concerned so much about the time/resources issue. Constraints often unleash creativity, honestly, and that's good. PhpGedView just isn't my style; sorry. Plus, names are important (at least for poets like me :)). Firefox is a much cooler name than, say, HtmlWebView. But I digress. Let me put it this way: I've been reading 37signals' Getting Real stuff, and I completely agree with them. It's the Right Way to do things. It's also the Mac Way, to be honest. Steve Jobs and 37signals have style and good taste. I'm going with them. PhpGedView, conversely, wasn't built that way, and so I'm really just not all that interested. Sure, I'll make Beyond as compatible as possible with PhpGedView and all the other record managers out there, but I have my own vision of what Beyond can become, and I'm not going to give that up. Again, sorry. But there are things I want to do with the data layer that I can’t do with PhpGedView (my way of doing evidence/sources, for example, and the research pages). And not to mention the revision control idea. Nor do I think GEDCOM is a good foundation to build on. These things might be possible to change, yes, but (a) it’s more work than doing it from the ground up, (b) I’m not a lead developer on PhpGedView and thus don’t have the clout or authority to make these sorts of changes, and (c) I don’t want to work in PHP, I want to work in Ruby on Rails.

I appreciate your concerns, and I hope that PhpGedView continues to get better and better. As I’ve said before, I’m not in this for self-aggrandizement; I’m in it to make the genealogical world a better place. Beyond gives me a blank slate on which I can try new ideas, and if any good ideas do come out of this, other developers are more than welcome to incorporate them into their projects.

In short, I’m not concerned so much about the time/resources issue. Constraints often unleash creativity, honestly, and that’s good. PhpGedView just isn’t my style; sorry.

Plus, names are important (at least for poets like me :)). Firefox is a much cooler name than, say, HtmlWebView. But I digress.

Let me put it this way: I’ve been reading 37signals’ Getting Real stuff, and I completely agree with them. It’s the Right Way to do things. It’s also the Mac Way, to be honest. Steve Jobs and 37signals have style and good taste. I’m going with them. PhpGedView, conversely, wasn’t built that way, and so I’m really just not all that interested. Sure, I’ll make Beyond as compatible as possible with PhpGedView and all the other record managers out there, but I have my own vision of what Beyond can become, and I’m not going to give that up. Again, sorry.

]]> by: test http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-215 Wed, 24 May 2006 16:56:01 +0000 http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-215 Here is a link that might be out of date but provides some info http://phpgedview.net/devdocs/webservice_api.php Here is a link that might be out of date but provides some info
http://phpgedview.net/devdocs/webservice_api.php

]]> by: test http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-214 Wed, 24 May 2006 16:44:58 +0000 http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-214 Keep in mind that PhpGedView has full SOAP access to its data layer, so you could use that for the full back end support, and bolt your front end to the back end using the SOAP interface. This woulkd save you a LOT of time in recreating the wheel. I am sure that they would be glad to add any SOAP interfaces that you might need that are not currently availible. This would free you up to work on the user friendly front end. Keep in mind that PhpGedView has full SOAP access to its data layer, so you could use that for the full back end support, and bolt your front end to the back end using the SOAP interface. This woulkd save you a LOT of time in recreating the wheel. I am sure that they would be glad to add any SOAP interfaces that you might need that are not currently availible. This would free you up to work on the user friendly front end.

]]> by: Ben http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-213 Wed, 24 May 2006 13:53:13 +0000 http://www.beyondproject.org/2006/05/23/the-medusa-and-the-snail/#comment-213 I've certainly thought about that many, many times. "What in the blazes do you think you're doing? This is madness, you know, pure madness." :) And here is my response: I think it's great that people have put together projects like phpGedView, and I don't want to demean their efforts in the slightest. They do good work. But I have a different vision for how things ought to be done, and it would be impossible to take an existing project (especially one as far along as phpGedView) and mold it into what I think it needs to be. (Not to mention the fact that the developers might have a bone to pick with that. :)) Instead, starting from scratch is the only thing to do, because none of the existing solutions are satisfactory as far as I'm concerned. The closest was PAF, but that's only available for Windows. Thus Beyond was born. I don't want to pick apart phpGedView's faults, since that's not fair or nice. But I <i>can</i> say why I chose to start a new project. First, user-friendliness is key and has to be designed in from the very beginning. Second, simplicity, not feature bloat. Third, aesthetics (or style or taste, whatever you want to call it). Do I really think that I have the resources to build this? Heck no! :) It depends on how you define "this," actually. I do think that I can build a solid foundation, yes, and from there get help with the rest. phpGedView wasn't built by a solo developer. :) (Nor was Rome built in a day, for that matter.) I can't join forces with a project which has a markedly different philosophy, at least not on anything but a superficial level. No, that doesn't mean I'm against collaboration -- certainly not! But I'm going to do what's best for Beyond and what I deem best for users and the genealogy world, and if that means being different, so be it. One last reason: being small means I'm free to innovate and try new ideas, with a very low cost (in time and resources, since there isn't a huge code base threatening to fall on me if I mess up). Can't beat that. :) I’ve certainly thought about that many, many times. “What in the blazes do you think you’re doing? This is madness, you know, pure madness.” :) And here is my response:

I think it’s great that people have put together projects like phpGedView, and I don’t want to demean their efforts in the slightest. They do good work. But I have a different vision for how things ought to be done, and it would be impossible to take an existing project (especially one as far along as phpGedView) and mold it into what I think it needs to be. (Not to mention the fact that the developers might have a bone to pick with that. :))

Instead, starting from scratch is the only thing to do, because none of the existing solutions are satisfactory as far as I’m concerned. The closest was PAF, but that’s only available for Windows. Thus Beyond was born.

I don’t want to pick apart phpGedView’s faults, since that’s not fair or nice. But I can say why I chose to start a new project. First, user-friendliness is key and has to be designed in from the very beginning. Second, simplicity, not feature bloat. Third, aesthetics (or style or taste, whatever you want to call it).

Do I really think that I have the resources to build this? Heck no! :) It depends on how you define “this,” actually. I do think that I can build a solid foundation, yes, and from there get help with the rest. phpGedView wasn’t built by a solo developer. :) (Nor was Rome built in a day, for that matter.)

I can’t join forces with a project which has a markedly different philosophy, at least not on anything but a superficial level. No, that doesn’t mean I’m against collaboration — certainly not! But I’m going to do what’s best for Beyond and what I deem best for users and the genealogy world, and if that means being different, so be it.

One last reason: being small means I’m free to innovate and try new ideas, with a very low cost (in time and resources, since there isn’t a huge code base threatening to fall on me if I mess up). Can’t beat that. :)

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